by a recent PR Daily post, “Advertising vs. PR: How to measure the value of editorial coverage (thank you, Heather Whaling, for pointing me to it).
If you haven’t read it yet
””though I’ll be amazed if there’s a PR pro worth her pink boots who hasn’t read it yet, and men, don’t even try to get cute with me on that””
it’s a very weird justification of AVE (ad value equivalency) as a measure of “PR,” which the author equates to “publicity” (something else I am so tired of hearing).
And if you don’t know it yet, I think AVE, which essentially tries to assign a dollar figure to the “value of publicity” in advertising terms, is bunkum.
You heard me right.
Bunkum.
Image: Vectorportal via Flickr, CC 2.0
Also hogwash, drivel, poppycock and hooey.
Oh, and piffle.
Definitely piffle.
But what was most baffling was that this was published in PR Daily.
One of the most well-known trades in our business.
I mean, this would be like… I don’t know… TIME getting Sarah Palin to write an op-ed on animal welfare.
It got me so irritated that, while prepping for two client calls and meetings, I tweeted Mark Ragan, questioning the validity of running such a post:
Now, Mark has always been very nice to me, but we’re not exactly bosom buddies.
So I was impressed when he responded to me via DM, asking if I’d be interested in writing a rebuttal post for PRD.
Interested?
Do basset hounds look funny when they run? (Thanks, Bonnie Upright, for sending that my way.)
Is the moon made of blue cheese? OK, that last one doesn’t work, but you get what I mean.
By the time I started writing the post
I’d already commented on the original, commented on a reply to my comment, and commented on a rebuttal post that Chuck Hemann published on his own blog (read it, it’s terrific).
Over and above this, the author of the original post has been beaten up quite enough by all of us, and I wouldn’t blame her if she went into hiding for a few days.
So I wondered if I was really up to re-re-re-re-rebutting it.
But you know what?
When you write rubbish, you should be called out on it.
Especially when you write rubbish that not just you, but your agency has to stand by, since your byline states, quite clearly, that you are an employee of such-and-such agency.
I’ve been called out when people have thought I’ve written BS.
And I’ve done my own share of ranting, which I’m doing now as well.
Strange as it may seem,
I don’t really like to rant as a matter of course.
I don’t frequent bloggers who make a habit of ranting because, quite frankly, they start to bore me.
And, most of all, I don’t want to become predictably pompous because of said rants.
I mean, who likes pompous asses? I certainly don’t.
Image: p.Gordon via Flickr, CC 2.0
This time, however, it’s different.
The post that has so many of us riled up isn’t just any post you can yawn at and say, “She doesn’t know what she’s talking about,” though that seems to be the case here.
It’s been given at least some semblance of credibility by virtue of its platform.
So I will re-re-re-re-rebut as best I can.
If Ragan publishes it, fabulous.
If not, I’ll just publish it here.
Here is part of my comment on the original post, so that you can see what I mean about credibility (typos included but reformatted for WUL so that it’s easier for you to read, and emphasis/italicization for WUL only):
… there’s the question of what happens after a piece is published. Because if that publicity””assuming it’s positive in all the ways one wants it to be””doesn’t translate into business results, what’s the point?
Let’s take this post, for example.
You scored big time by having Ragan publish it (though I’m dying to know what the AVE is, please, please tell me).
I imagine that since it published yesterday, your firm’s website and, possibly, blog, have seen increased traffic since this piece published.
However, has it bolstered your reputation as a professional and, by association, that of your firm?
Is it getting you kudos and “attagirls”?
Is it resulting in increased blog subscribers and new business inquiries?
Did your newsletter subscribers just seen an upswing?
Or has it just put the Wakeman Agency on the list of “PR agencies” never to refer business to?
I know what my answer would be to my questions above (no, no, no, no and yes).
The tragedy of pieces such as yours is that many businesses, who are genuinely trying to understand how to measure their PR efforts, might think this is the way to do it, by virtue of the fact that it published in PRD.
As one of the major trades in our business, Ragan & PRD should have known better.
As an industry professional with “nearly a decade” of experience, YOU should know better.
I can let many things go,
because life is too short to get irritated by everything that warrants it.
But not this one.
Because, as PR professionals, we should know better.
Practitioners, publishers, academics, students””all of us.
Remember what Peter Pan said?
“Every time a child says, ‘I don’t believe in fairies,’ there is a fairy somewhere that falls down dead.’ “
Every time any of us gives credence to AVE, the practice of public relations is set back by at least a couple of decades, if not a century or more.
So.
As Chuck asked in his post, can I get an witness?
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@bdorman264 ROFL!
@cparente I think that’s why a lot of pros will use it, even though they don’t want to. TI forget where exactly, but as a reaction to this/the PRD post, someone wondered why we were still talking about this – which is true, we shouldn’t be, we should have moved beyond it by now.
I think there is a bit of an echo chamber problem when it comes to measurement. We know what should NOT be done, but many of us are just preaching to the choir. That’s why the PRD post bugged me so – it had potential to go beyond the choir and to the rafters.
OK, I’ll stop coming up with bad analogies now.
No seriously, how do you really feel about it?……………..:)
Totally agree, with one new observation. Ad equivalency is a joke, BUT strangely enough has proven useful for some of my clients internally. They use it to appease senior execs who don’t get PR. Sad fact of the world we live in.
@3HatsComm A loooong time ago, I was on a conference call for a PR volunteer group I was involved with, and there were various issues we were talking about. The group was ready to back down to what I thought was something absolutely ridiculous, and as far as I can recall, that was the first time I used the word “piffle.” They almost died laughing… and didn’t back down. :p
Re: clients/potential clients – exactly why the post got us so riled up. The more stuff like this is allowed to fester, the more they will think it’s ok to use.
@DanGordon Absolutely my pleasure, Dan. Thanks so much for stopping by!
@3HatsComm @Soulati @EricaAllison It will have to be a very particular shade of purple, though, almost close to midnight blue. Because of my swarthy complexion, y’know…
@Shonali Thanks so much, Shonali. Appreciate the kind words very much so… I read over the article & comments and cannot express enough to everyone here how much I live by the way you described my mentality when it comes to running a business. I really do “just get on with it”, the results will follow if I’m truly doing something worthwhile. In a world where results are the focus, I know I cannot truly measure the results before the action is initiated. Sometimes the results live on for years. Sometimes the results come from dots connecting in a way I never imagined. There is a lot that happens I’m unaware of until way after the fact of the matter. But I do know one thing. Without action their is no risk, and without risk comes no chance of reward. When I measure results of the action, the information allows me to fine-tune my strategy, realize if I’m going in the right direction, and stop doing what isn’t working in any realm of my business plan. As far as the PR side goes, I know you know how much coverage I’ve received. Way more than my fair share, and it’s given me a real world perspective & insight on how powerful this can be for any businesses bottom line… on so many different levels. Not just B2C, the B2B benefits are very real, as well. I could go on and on, but I think you know that I’ve had a great experience in this department and truly see the real value in it all. Thanks again, enjoyed reading this post and also the comments from true professionals in the field, itself.
@Shonali @EricaAllison @soulati @Kevin Quartz @dangordon
@Shonali
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I love bunkum. Piffle. Rubbish! Gonna have to use these words more often.
Now to throw a little fly in the “Die, AVEs, DIE!” ointment: clients. There are times in passing with various business professionals or even potential client sit downs I still have to fight this fight. Those who know just enough about ‘marketing’ to be dangerous, when they hear ‘PR’ they 1) think publicity and 2) start talking AVEs. Then it’s the “PR is not just publicity” meme followed by a lecture on measurement and research, at which most people realize that’ll cost time and money. So yes, posts like these and the PRJL are a good start, as is client education. So I’ll be bookmarking this and the ‘AVEs scurge’ post for future reference. FWIW.
@ginidietrich dcaplick soulati jonaston Thanks for the kind words – I was afraid I’d find just what I did when I went looking. If we can’t educate our own colleagues, then we’ll never succeed in educating non-comm business execs on the profession. It’s a shame that with so many talented PR professionals practically begging for work, that those who are working are so lacking (for want of a better, kinder word).
@ginidietrich dcaplick soulati jonaston Thanks for the kind words – I was afraid I’d find just what I did when I went looking. If we can’t educate our own colleagues, then we’ll never succeed in educating non-comm business execs on the profession. It’s a shame that with so many talented PR professionals practically begging for work, that those who are working are so lacking (for want of a better, kinder word).
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@ginidietrich dcaplick soulati jonaston Thanks for the kind words, all! I had a feeling that I’d find something like what I did in Jessica’s bio, but hope does tend to spring eternal. What I find amazing is that someone with so little understanding can be employed, when there are so many talented PR pros out there practically begging for jobs. I don’t think we can educate clients and non-comm business execs on the role/function of public relations successfully until we can educate some of our own colleagues.
@Soulati @EricaAllison @Shonali I have plenty of purple and gold to wear and some silly commentary to offer for the cause.
@Shonali @EricaAllison soulati @Kevin Quartz dangordon Costumes! Justice League, bwah. Carry on.
@Shonali @commammo @JGoldsborough @chuckhemann Like BSVE and ‘whack-a-mole’ too.
@commammo I know, it’s such a time suck when we could actually be doing something productive. But we have to smack it down, right?
I love “BSVE,” btw, and I suspect @3HatsComm would as well – she’s the Acronym Queen. Also, @JGoldsborough made a great comment over at @chuckhemann ‘s post about AVE being a street abbreviation. Still giggling over that one.
Shonali – good stuff, and good rebuttal. I’m just so bleedin’ exhausted having to Whack-a-Mole this crappy research stupid measurement and preposterous thinking! The thing is, it’s unnecessary! AVE is BS (BSVE?) You can’t draw replicable conclusions about influence from the tweet stream. Black box measurement is likely unethical (and frequently useless anyway). This all shouldn’t be so difficult! Everyone wants a shortcut, and there aren’t any. I feel like a sergeant — “stay in line, don’t break ranks, stay in step…” and then someone turns and runs back to the base shouting, AVE! AVE!
@#$@#$%%$@#$@#$@#$!!!!
Sean
@CommAMMO
@DanielleSherman That is so kind of you, thanks so much! Mark did indeed publish the post: http://bit.ly/dJKqyg – I’d love to know what you think of that as well.
http://bit.ly/dJKqyg @EricaAllison soulati @Kevin Quartz There’s the rebuttal (I’d love for you guys to share/comment if you like it, if you’re not already tired of doing so here, LOL). I will say that I’m impressed that they did not edit it at all.
But I think you’re right, Erica. We’re always being asked to justify the need for PR, so people use AVE. I’ve seen it time and time again. That’s why I’m so impressed with business owners like dangordon , who get on with business and let the results speak for themselves. We could learn a lot from people like him.
It’s really tough to write something like this and not make it personal, and I hope the author of the original post realizes that we don’t have anything against her personally. But when you put your words out there like this, you have to be able to stand by them, and there was nothing in her post that did that.
The costume idea has advanced; @EricaAllison agrees purple is good. I think a logo contest could be in the offing. PR Justice League — Blog Squad @Shonali
Holy, Moly! Piffle indeed. Now you’ve gotten the PR Justice League involved and soulati is out working on costumes. What is with people? I know. It’s called instant gratification and a push to put something out there…anything…so that your name or your agency gets some air time. I can only imagine the thought process (or lack of) that went into that PR Daily post and not surprised that they ran it. I agree with @Kevin Quartz on this: Ragan got a bump in readership and stirred the pot to do it. The comments on that post (with the exception of one student who found it very enlightening) were very much like the ones found here: Outraged and shocked that we’re reviving AVE.
However, I think it could also be endemic of the climate we’re in….a push for justification for our services. There is the overwhelming need to prove the value of something that has yet to be explained by folks who have jumped into as a new career without fully understanding the strategic benefits or how to explain them to the client. That’s a mouthful, but it’s clear the woman writing the PR Daily article did not have the true level of experience needed to write the story in a way that was credible. She skipped over metrics and resources and jumped right to justification without data. That’s unfortunate, but I’m so glad that you’re writing the rebuttal and can’t wait to see it!!!!
Shonali — as a former PR professional who has been working in measurement for the last 7-ish years, I’ve been following this story pretty closely because AVE as a measurement of PR success makes me crazy and always has. You articulate the argument against AVE and this post in general much better than I have ever been able to; I can only hope that Mark publishes your re-re-re-re-re-buttal so that the same people who read the initial post get to read an opposing viewpoint.
Uhm, definitely costumes; dang you gals are Halloweenies aren’t you? Flip and balance and show the good — like case studies that work — all the award entries that never get the statue; I like, like. Blog post coming up to make it official. @Shonali
@KenMueller Thank you @ginidietrich ! I <3 Gini big time. Not just because she is so smart, but because she is kind and generous as well. There are a lot of smart people around. Not all of them have big hearts.
@Soulati A Gin Blossom Special… love it! Do I get to try one? :p
Re: PRJL… great idea! I’d venture to suggest that we also pinpoint those who are doing it well, to balance things out. We do need to call out crap when we see it, but especially in terms of driving awareness of how things *should* be done, I’d love to see the other side of things as well. Just my $0.02.
Oh – and can we have costumes, please? :p
@ginidietrich dcaplick jonaston Thanks for drawing me in, Gin. You know me well now. I feel better now that I got to get it all out in the open. Uh-huh.
@Kevin Quartz “Be honest with yourself, the media and your client. If you’re honest you can measure it any way you like because you won’t need AVE.” I love that. Thank you.
The sad part is that there are indeed organizations and pros who automatically gravitate towards AVE – I hear of them all the time. I was in Kansas City last month (thanks again jgoldsborough for getting that ball rolling), speaking to IABC there, and one of the first questions I got was on the “right” way to calculate publicity value. You can imagine what I said…
@Shonali You can thank @ginidietrich for pointing me here. And this post, and one of Gini’s have become fodder for a post I’m now working on for later this week.
Shonali, Gini, Sean, my colleagues who get it…(sorry, Kevin, we’ve not met yet!)…this week I ran an emergency blog post similar in nature to your re to-the-5th-power-buttal, Shonali, about a young-un, I believe, who works at an agency, who suggests PR people are not strategic, we don’t plan, we’re not visionary leaders, and we don’t review ed cals that well for planning purposes, unlike his digital counterparts who use them the best.
And, so, fuming, I wrote and blasted and expressed dismay that we in PR continue to bash our profession’s credibility and suggest to the business world at large that we’re flacks, schlocks, and less than professional.
Perhaps it’s my 27 years in the profession having seen and heard what I thought was everything being tossed at the bus; however, of late, I’m aghast and sickened by the douche bags (that’s a Gin Blossom Special) who continue to drivel for traffic building and as an experiment in negative publicity (I refuse to even mention the original topic to which you’ve so perfectly done justice, Shonali; thank you).
As a result, Beatriz Alemar balemar and Danielle Kelly prdrln have both agreed (Ms. Alemar’s original idea) to jump into the PR Justice League; our blog squad (Shonali, there’s no question you’re automatically in) will pinpoint the posts and peeps who do PR un-justice, and we will set the record straight because someone needs to and we’re the ones who need the link love to drive traffic to publishings that merit.
Who’s in?
@Sean McGinnis LOL! Let’s hope so. They could, of course, be ignoring the whole thing…
@KenMueller Required reading – way cool, thank you!
I suppose part if it is a sign of the times. We want everything faster, now, before it happened. It’s exhausting, isn’t it? Thanks so much for stopping by, Ken.
@ginidietrich Thank you! And I too thought dcaplick doing her investigative work was quite awesome.
I can understand some of the misconceptions, because there are new people coming into our industry all the time. But not from someone who’s supposed to be at a senior level like this.
I don’t know any PR professional that has used AVE in the last 10 years. This was a hot topic 8-10 years ago. More importantly, I don’t know of any clients that would let their agency or PR person use AVE to justify any type of investment.
Articles like this run to gain readership. It’s sparks controversy because it pits professionals vs. flacks. It gives voice to the minority and the majority is outraged. Meanwhile, the article gets passed around, read and talked about. The clear winner here is Mark Ragan and PR Daily.
At the end of the day, it goes back to what I think is the core of PR – honesty. Be honest with yourself, the media and your client. If you’re honest you can measure it any way you like because you won’t need AVE.
Well, if nothing else, the author of the original post and her agency are getting a swift lesson in the role a PR professional can play during crisis management.
Making money and some sort of ROI analytics are important, but boy we seem to be so worried about numbers…especially in a microwave sorta way. You know how you pop something in the microwave and while it USED to be fast, we stand there tapping our foot because goshdarnit, 30 second isn’t fast enough anymore!
Whatever happened to seeing the cumulative results of things over time? I’ll take something that cooks in the crockpot over the same thing in the microwave any day!
I’m making this post required reading for my students TODAY! (but they can take their time reading it, of course…)
I thought your comment on the original story was really good and I also loved what dcaplick had to say about the due diligence she did into Jessica’s background. It’s pretty clear that, even though she has a decade of experience, she doesn’t understand the difference between publicity and PR. Don’t let soulati at her!
It’s funny. We ran a guest post on Monday about how social is changing PR and jonaston asked if there are PR people in the world who still don’t know what was discussed. This is a prime example of how few of us really get it. It’s sad. But we’ll keep fighting the fight!