Guest Post by Shakirah Dawud
It all began when Michelle Quillin re-tweeted a recent post of mine. It was about remembering to use the headline and first lines to keep readers compelled to read, old and new.
A follower of hers read it, and tweeted in reply, “That made me want to vomit.”
I was totally at sea.
Michelle asked him why. The points he tweeted back basically amounted to just one: social media cannot be used to sell anything, so why deceive people with tips to help them do that?
Michelle and I offered proof to the contrary from our own experience that keeping an engaged audience and building relationships through our blogs and other social media platforms has benefited us, business-wise. He persisted with his view, adding that traffic to a blog has no bearing on sales, and that blogs are only meant to entertain, kind of like reality shows.
I thought the argument itself was strange and kind of dumb, but that’s usually my reaction to most arguments because I seldom find arguing worth my time.
In other words, I’m not very good at it.
But it was amazing to me that we could have this argument–which spanned three days, in spurts–about social media on social media, especially when my opposition professes social media is a complete waste of time.
However, there were a couple of things that weren’t dumb about the encounter.
1. I’m not a social media evangelist, and I’m very cautious about how I engage in this space. But neither Michelle nor I could ignore the fact that his points contradicted our experiences as we market and network for our businesses on social media.
Countering his opinions with eyewitness facts was our duty, and could benefit others new to the sphere who may have been spectating.
2. A lot of folks don’t only see no benefit in all your time spent tweeting and status updating, but are entirely unconvinced it could possibly be worthwhile because it goes against some deeply held beliefs they have about the world around them. And there will be no convincing those people.
3. For some people, “Don’t mess with me and I won’t mess with you” does not apply. They thrive on getting in people’s faces and making them as uncomfortable as possible.
Being aware of this can keep us from taking it personally. But when it reaches a personal place, it needs to be reported.
4. I needed the reminder that I’m not in this web alone, and I wanted to hug Michelle for the support she offered and her “kill-em-with-kindness” way of dealing with undesirable situations. Thank you again, Michelle.
Have you ever attempted to discuss social media with anyone as resistant to its charms as in my example? What kinds of arguments did you make? Did it work?
Photo credit: havi, courtesy Flickr, CC 2.0.
Shakirah Dawud is the writer and editor behind Deliberate Ink. Based in Maryland with roots in New York, she’s been crafting effective marketing copy as a writer and polishing many forms of prose as an editor since 2002. Clients in many fun sizes, industries, and locations reach her through the Web.
Don’t worry Shonali, there are people who think that social media are a waste of time – mostly because they waste time on them. Others, like yourself, know the power of engaging with sincerity, regardless of the media, is a way to connect people and ideas.
@thepaulsutton @JustInTheSouth @ocopy Thanks for sharing, and bright morning to you!
@shakirahdawud You’re welcome. You stumble across these types of fools now & again. Sometimes there’s just no reasoning…
@thepaulsutton They seem to abhor the very idea of reasoning, yes.
People are nuts and sometimes it just doesn’t matter what you say. I have had several “discussions” online and offline about whether this space works or not.
One man told me that he thought that all ad clicks were made by teenagers who were paid by the companies to do nothing but click ads all day long. He said that the companies budgeted for this and that anyone who believed differently was an idiot.
I didn’t spend much time trying to convince Mr. Peachy that he was wrong because he was already convinced that I was among the idiots.
Some of these discussions are worth having and some aren’t. The trick is picking and choosing. Sometimes I will engage because of the lurkers, but often I just move on. If they aren’t going to be reasonable and civil there is no point.
@TheJackB Yes, what happens is we’re making a surface argument that doesn’t even scratch the real issue the other person is harboring, which most often in this case is that we’re naive sheeple. If we can’t prove that wrong (and we usually can’t no matter what we do), we’re not going to prove anything else.
@adamtoporek @craigmcbreen Thanks for sharing, you two!
I know people like @KenMueller profess just having a facebook page will make you millions. This person should talk with Ken 8)
In all seriousness I think the problem is the smart people @KenMueller included can explain to clients that doing X in Social Media will return you Y in results without claiming you don’t need other marketing or you can replace a quality product at the right price. But the person you tweeted with easily could of be reading any number of AdAge top 50 blogs or books written by ninjas who are making money selling the idea of social media without proof of results.
I am at war with Wildfire who Google just bought because I get emails trying to over hype reality. For example they will say ‘Using our platform you can amplify your results on facebook by 70%!’ and when you look at the base number it is so low that both before and after is kind of zero. But that doesn’t mean there is no value to both the before and after and they can be enough to justify using the platform in addition to other marketing efforts. I could say just having a Facebook page gives you a free business to customer bulletin board which is what it is. Just like having a blog gives prospective clients an insight into your views and strategies even if they never comment or tell you they read your blog then hire you.
So as bugs would say what an ultra maroon!
@HowieG @KenMueller Thank you! Both you and Ken would probably have been the perfect replacements for me in this argument. I don’t know what he’s been reading or not reading, but he’s not had a lack of exposure to real salt-of-the-earth folks who have the patience to answer his questions and counter his arguments like @nemultimedia, either. So I just can’t credit the holes in his logic.
Without getting too deep into the particular conversation, Shakirah…this is a discussion I have with my wife practically on a daily basis. She is convinced that computers are the Devil’s own concoction and social media platforms are the evil spawn. :-)
The irony is that she works in a global financial services organization and communicates with clients around the world on a daily basis. But she cannot (refuses to??) see the value of social media in business.
Secret to 40 years of marriage?? I’ve quit trying to convince her. She’s firmly ensconced on the far-lefthand side of the bell curve as one of the .5% who will NEVER be persuaded!
With clients/employers…much easier conversation!
Great post!
@KirkHazlett Oh, forty years’ marriage is definitely worth way more than a status update! And she’s got plenty of time to be persuaded, even if not by you. Thanks for sharing, Kirk.
Without getting too deep into the particular conversation, Shakirah…this is a discussion I have with my wife practically on a daily basis. She is convinced that computers are the Devil’s own concoction and social media platforms are the evil spawn. :-)
The irony is that she works in a global financial services organization and communicates with clients around the world on a daily basis. But she cannot (refuses??) see the value of social media in business.
Secret to 40 years of marriage?? I’ve quit trying to convince her. She’s firmly ensconced on the far-lefthand side of the bell curve as one of the .5% who will NEVER be persuaded!
With clients/employers…much easier conversation!
Great post!
What a great post, Shakirah!
There’s some irony in the fact that the meanest, most personal critics on social media are often those who have not engaged, formed relationships, friendships and other connections through the social web. (Personal, in this case, being the vomit reference. That was over the top, and didn’t offer any specifics.)
A much better, more civil, more productive response would’ve been: “I disagree. I still don’t buy this argument. Can you offer another example or two?”
Now, a response like that could’ve started a conversation that got into the nooks and crannies of the issue.
It’s not worth the time or energy to trade zingers. I try to laugh, shake my head and move on.
I’m curious, though, how many of the haters would be like that if in the same room with the object of their scorn?
I got criticized yesterday by a Twitter user who had a only a few followers and displayed the egg head avatar, but lobbed pesonal barbs about me not “getting” social media.
It’s called the social web for a reason. You get the hang of the rules by playing: by being social, civil and present.
The folks who trash talk are in the wrong game…
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.
@BeckyGaylord Just yesterday, eh? They’re organizin’ I tell ya! Yes, I would have loved to have a discussion–even an argument–that was at least civil-tongued.
Shakirah! So great seeing you Shonali Burke house! What an interesting story, and one you and Michelle D. Quillin handled with aplomb. But, three days of that? Heck, who has that kind of time to devote to a heckler? So sorry the dude had a screw loose; hmm, is he reading this to begin to bomb my comment section? Hope not.
Each of us has had experiences negative which have further molded us as engagers, collaborators, bloggers, and professionals with high values and standards. You’re able to use this as an example for others; although this community is not who needs to hear it! Thanks for the love, too!
@Soulati | B2B Social Media Marketing Well, I’m certainly not calling him over–I just wanted to talk about what happened and what I learned, not start another long argument. I was shocked at the stamina required, myself.
I find that there are only three answers for combating this negative, trolling behavior: 1. Inundate with indisputable facts and figures that back up my statements (or)
2. Ignore them. 3. If #1 doesn’t work, do #2.In your case, I would’ve probably chosen #1. There are plenty of facts and figures that are widely available regarding the success of social media within sales. The first two off the top of my head are the Georgia Aquarium social media promotion that brought in $42k in 4 months and Dell gained $6.5 million from using Twitter.
I have been attacked personally and professionally for disagreeing online. I no longer care what the naysayers believe – perhaps my skin is getting thicker?
@CharityHisle Yes, I don’t consider myself a social media pro–just a pro who uses social media. So it was kind of funny to me to be defending the likes of Facebook, which isn’t even part of my social media strategy. But at the same time, we both knew we had to say something. If this were simply opposing viewpoints, I’d have let it go, but the truth was at stake.
We have a client that, through every fault of his own, will likely lose his job simply because he has failed to engage in social, despite all the proofs we and his attending a two-day seminar on the topic have provided. Instead, he defaults to the same channels and is surprised that he gets the same results. Some people are intractably resistant to change as the world moves on around them. I simply call it lazy.
@BobReed I had a client like that as well. My philosophy is “You can’t fix stupid.” :)
@BobReed There’s another description for people who do the same thing over and over expecting different results… but insanity would be an excuse.
I see this all the time, and sorry you had to go through with it. Often we fear what we don’t understand. Additionally, with small businesses, I find this attitude comes when they have “tried social media” and it “didn’t work” according to them. Often their definition of “trying” is, “We created a Facebook page and nothing happened”.
It’s not that it doesn’t work, it’s that they don’t understand it, and therefore approached it from a more traditional media mindset, rather than a social media mindset. These are the businesses I won’t work with as clients.
I’d love to know what this guy does for a living. Perhaps social is a threat to his business which is outdated, if he’s in some other form of marketing.
@KenMueller Well, @nemultimedia told me he sells timeshares, which could do well on social media–done right. But he’s seen success doing it his way–the high-pressure salesman way–and so apparently social media can’t work because the methods are completely opposite.
@ShakirahDawud @nemultimedia @KenMueller actually I view it as an AND for time shares. You can do them both together. I have a new client that is in B2B and B2C involving everything pools. Maintenance, building new ones, renovations. Doing my research I am connecting with Realtors, Home Builders, Hotels, Property Managers etc. And then observing how they use Twitter and Facebook. Most struggle. But yet I see entities in each group with thousands of twitter followers and facebook fans. It just means a different strategy and content is all.
So lets use timeshares: Pinterest, Twitter, facebook for vacation location porn shots. A blog where people tell their story of how much they loved their week by the lake or by the beach. Tips on how to enjoy yourself, places to go.Youtube videos.
Where is this guy he owes me money for my social strategy.
@HowieG @KenMueller I bet he owes a lot of folks, not least @nemultimedia, with whom he’d already been “acquainted” before my encounter with him. Heh.
@KenMueller I love the ‘I post twice a week on facebook and send one tweet a day so social doesn’t work’ response.
@KenMueller
I’ve had similar experiences, but most of the small businesses I talk to are on Linked-in, that’s it! When I tell them how easy it is to create a Google+ business page they often try to change the topic or just give me a funny look ;)
Actually, it’s getting much easier, as they are finally starting to get it, at least in my small world.
I’m now fleshing out details to give a much better presentation. Something I’ll hopefully develop into a talk for chamber events, etc. But like you say, Ken, it’s about getting them to understand it. Man, that’s half the battle, huh? :)
Nice to see you here, Shakirah.
@Craig McBreen @KenMueller I started on LinkedIn myself, and moved into Twitter from there. I have to say, my reason for joining Twitter–and later building a blog–wasn’t because everyone was saying how great Twitter was for businesses, because back then people weren’t raving about it the way they are now (at least not in my circles). My reason was the experience I had. I followed first people I knew from LinkedIn, and was pleased by the warm reception and the activity of the constantly changing stream of random things of interest going by me. When strangers began to follow me back and looked forward to saying hello, I felt less like an insignificant, silly little speck floating in the sea of tweets and more like I could at some point get the hang of this–even control of it. And I was hooked.